Curse

Xenomortis · Nov 30, 2008, 06:55 PM // 18:55

Earth comes out on top.
Good defense (wards and defensive skills (although water gets [Ward against Harm]) and good damage along with plenty of ways to cause knockdown.

FlamingMetroid · Nov 30, 2008, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Energy Storage for CoP spamming

snaek · Nov 30, 2008, 06:59 PM // 18:59

use master of magic and run all 4 lawl

but seriously
i'd say earth but earth eles r lame
if ur cool u run fire

i'd only run water/air for kicks
or if its needed for a specific team build and/or area

Enon · Nov 30, 2008, 07:20 PM // 19:20

For NM Fire, preferably SH, unless I'm using an Ele Hero.
For HM I mostly use Earth combined with AP. Did all HM missions this way and works wonders =)

The Meth · Nov 30, 2008, 08:07 PM // 20:07

Is PvE skills considered a magic attribute? Its always the best.

for NM, I would rate them:
Fire: Shit dies. Thats the point of PvE.
Earth: Decent damage, lots of utility in wards.
Water: Lowish damage, snares are nice but fairly unimpressive in general PvE. Maelstrom is nice but I don't count it as a water skill, you get the main effect with 0 in water.
Air: Low damage, the only decent skill in the whole line is blinding flash and its much more effective just to bring enfeebling blood on a necro.

For HM, just swap fire and earth around.

Fire does slightly less damage in HM (not nearly as low as some would have you think, their armor increases by 5-15 max) but earth defensive power goes up because, for example, ward against melee is blocking 50% more attacks because enemies attack 50% more often. Ether Renewal also deserves a mention since it allows you infinite energy, but thats not really a build, just a gimmick to let you run any other build better. PvE skills are still imba in HM, but you lose Guild Wars cred every time you run them

Xenomortis · Nov 30, 2008, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Fire damage is weakened towards the end of campaigns in NM. The fact that most monsters have levels over level 20 mean their armour against you is effectively higher.
Go there in HM and it suffers even more.

It isn't terrible, it's just Earth Magic is better, it can both support your party and hurt the enemy. Fire magic only hurts the enemy and that's a fairly narrow scope.

Air magic is geared towards single target damage, which is not really desirable in PvE. What's more, it isn't even great single target damage.

snaek · Nov 30, 2008, 09:39 PM // 21:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Fire damage is weakened towards the end of campaigns in NM. The fact that most monsters have levels over level 20 mean their armour against you is effectively higher.
Go there in HM and it suffers even more.

It isn't terrible, it's just Earth Magic is better, it can both support your party and hurt the enemy. Fire magic only hurts the enemy and that's a fairly narrow scope.

Air magic is geared towards single target damage, which is not really desirable in PvE. What's more, it isn't even great single target damage.

the point of goin fire is for infinte energy wit mindblast to fuel support pve skills

and support pve skills > support earth skills

(and of course mindblast can fuel any support skill from any other attrib line as well, e.g. e/n)

Tyla · Nov 30, 2008, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Ether Renewal does that more efficiently.

Not saying MB is bad though.

Kabuto Elementalist · Nov 30, 2008, 10:51 PM // 22:51

I'm not sure why you guys say Fire Magic sucks, it actually only does versus a Destroyer or foes with extreme armor ratings (I still use Fire magic against Destroyers because I base my team builds around Area Damage creating a massive nuke)

Fire Magic:
Destructive to an area for most of the spells.
Air Magic:
High in damage mostly to single targets.
Earth Magic:
More of a defensive line rather than high damage, mostly against targets that rely on attacks for dealing damage.
Water Magic:
Mixed for damage and defensive tactics.

Fire can be very effective when you use Crack Armor condition on foes, their additional armor advantage in Hard Mode is no longer valid.

Tyla · Nov 30, 2008, 11:25 PM // 23:25

When your damage needs a condition to have power in all it does, you know it sucks for the most part.

MegaVolti · Nov 30, 2008, 11:32 PM // 23:32

To all claiming fire is best for damage in normal mode: Earth spells do exactly the same damage! Just look at [[Churning Earth] and [[Teinai's Heat]. So even in NM, earth is superor since the conditions it can apply help a lot more then the occasional burning.

Could someone who rated water magic high for PvE please comment on the reasons for that? I love using water magic in PvP but I never found it useful in PvE. Snaring can be done in PvE with [[Ward against foes] since the AI won't avoid it. Damage in water is not better then earth or fire and except for the snares it doesn't really offer anything ...

Kabuto Elementalist · Nov 30, 2008, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

When your damage needs a condition to have power in all it does, you know it sucks for the most part.

This applies to any damage regarding the targets' armor rating, and when you have a team build working together it does not matter. This isn't for solo farming. Guild Wars is mostly about meshing skills to work together.

Kabuto Elementalist · Dec 01, 2008, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

To all claiming fire is best for damage in normal mode: Earth spells do exactly the same damage! Just look at [[Churning Earth] and [[Teinai's Heat]. So even in NM, earth is superor since the conditions it can apply help a lot more then the occasional burning.

Could someone who rated water magic high for PvE please comment on the reasons for that? I love using water magic in PvP but I never found it useful in PvE. Snaring can be done in PvE with [[Ward against foes] since the AI won't avoid it. Damage in water is not better then earth or fire and except for the snares it doesn't really offer anything ...

That's a fair comparison, but let's put it this way;
(1) Skill, 2 second activation, deal damage to target and nearby area for 25 damage every second for 5 seconds (125 total).
(2) Skill, 2 second activation, deal 125 damage to target and nearby.

Which deals more damage? #1 and #2 are equal unless they move from the fixed DoT skill.
Which deals the damage faster? #2.

Fire Magic concentrates mostly in skills doing bursts of high damage to the zone with -7 health degeneration. In my experience, Water Magic is good for the massive snares and the damage output is "fair". Because of the way my team builds work together, my personal order from most powerful to least goes by Fire->Water->Earth->Air.

Perfected Shadow · Dec 01, 2008, 06:03 AM // 06:03

ENERGY STORAGE

[skill]Ether Renewal[/skill][skill]Glyph of Swiftness[/skill][skill]Protective Spirit[/skill][skill]Spirit Bond[/skill][skill]Vital Blessing[/skill][skill]Great Dwarf Weapon[/skill][skill]Infuse Health[/skill][skill]Aura of Restoration[/skill]

snaek · Dec 01, 2008, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Ether Renewal does that more efficiently.

Not saying MB is bad though.

but that wouldnt use any element at all
and tend to be purely defensive support (see e/mo)

also spammably lame to play

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyla

When your damage needs a condition to have power in all it does, you know it sucks for the most part.

its not that much different than using a condition/hex for discordway or a hex for cryway
...well except that both discordway and cryway do 100x the dmg a fire ele wit cracked armour will do

really its simply armor ignoring dmg > non-armor ignoring dmg

physical-heavy is mostly good cuz a lot of the dmg is pumped by armor ignoring bonuses

Tyla · Dec 01, 2008, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Discordway and Cryway both can use almost anything, providing it's a Mesmer hex (Cry), or any hex and condition (Discord). Fire requires Cracked Armour just to be effective, and has quite dumb casting times for some of the damage.

Physicals don't require any external help to be powerful unless somehow the +damage attack skills got deleted.

Kabuto Elementalist · Dec 01, 2008, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Discordway and Cryway both can use almost anything, providing it's a Mesmer hex (Cry), or any hex and condition (Discord). Fire requires Cracked Armour just to be effective, and has quite dumb casting times for some of the damage.

Physicals don't require any external help to be powerful unless somehow the +damage attack skills got deleted.

You want them to increment the spells to 150 damage then? I sure don't complain for what it can do now, for those who do then complain enough to Linsey for re-adjusting Intensity to Elementalist spells and bring it back to 15/30.

MegaVolti · Dec 01, 2008, 05:13 PM // 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kabuto Elementalist

That's a fair comparison, but let's put it this way;
(1) Skill, 2 second activation, deal damage to target and nearby area for 25 damage every second for 5 seconds (125 total).
(2) Skill, 2 second activation, deal 125 damage to target and nearby.

Which deals more damage? #1 and #2 are equal unless they move from the fixed DoT skill.
Which deals the damage faster? #2.

Fire Magic concentrates mostly in skills doing bursts of high damage to the zone with -7 health degeneration. In my experience, Water Magic is good for the massive snares and the damage output is "fair". Because of the way my team builds work together, my personal order from most powerful to least goes by Fire->Water->Earth->Air.

Both skills I posted have DoT. And the earth line also has direct damage spells ([[Earthquake]). Yes, it misses the burning part. But only few fire spells actually inflict burning. Earth on the other hand inflicts blindness and knockdown. I sure know what I prefer

About water: As I said snares rarely matter in PvE and if they do, [[Ward against foes] is just fine. The AI will run around in it forever, chasing your kiting teammates.
Still not seeing the point in PvE water magic ...

Mouse at Large · Dec 01, 2008, 09:29 PM // 21:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by MegaVolti

<snip> But only few fire spells actually inflict burning.<snip>

That's why we have [Mark of Rodgort]

snaek · Dec 01, 2008, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Discordway and Cryway both can use almost anything, providing it's a Mesmer hex (Cry), or any hex and condition (Discord). Fire requires Cracked Armour just to be effective, and has quite dumb casting times for some of the damage.

Physicals don't require any external help to be powerful unless somehow the +damage attack skills got deleted.

its still the same premisis

the real "dilemna" is armor ignoring dmg vs non-armor ignoring dmg
not that it relies on a condition to be effective

and i never said they had to be external
attack skills used by the chara r still considered armor ignoring dmg bonuses